Legislature(2015 - 2016)CAPITOL 106

03/13/2015 08:00 AM House EDUCATION

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08:05:51 AM Start
08:06:06 AM Briefing on the Ketchikan School Lawsuit
08:45:03 AM Adjourn
08:45:10 AM Briefing on the Ketchikan School Lawsuit
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Briefing on the Ketchikan School Lawsuit by TELECONFERENCED
Attorney General's Office
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
               HOUSE EDUCATION STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         March 13, 2015                                                                                         
                           8:05 a.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wes Keller, Chair                                                                                                
Representative Paul Seaton                                                                                                      
Representative Harriet Drummond                                                                                                 
Representative Jonathan Kreiss-Tomkins                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Lora Reinbold, Vice Chair                                                                                        
Representative Jim Colver                                                                                                       
Representative Liz Vazquez                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Daniel Ortiz                                                                                                     
Representative Sam Kito III                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
BRIEFING ON THE KETCHIKAN GATEWAY BOROUGH LAWSUIT                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REBECCA HATTON, Assistant Attorney General                                                                                      
Labor and State Affairs Section                                                                                                 
Department of Law                                                                                                               
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented a briefing regarding the                                                                       
Ketchikan Gateway Borough v. State of Alaska lawsuit.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
KATE VOGEL, Assistant Attorney General                                                                                          
Appellate Section                                                                                                               
Department of Law                                                                                                               
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  During the presentation offered comments                                                                 
and responded to questions.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
8:05:51 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WES  KELLER called the  House Education  Standing Committee                                                             
meeting to order at 8:05  a.m.  Representatives Drummond, Kreiss-                                                               
Tomkins, Seaton,  and Keller were  present at the call  to order.                                                               
Also present were Representatives Kito and Ortiz.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
^Briefing on the Ketchikan School Lawsuit                                                                                       
            Briefing on the Ketchikan School Lawsuit                                                                        
                                                                                                                              
8:06:06 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KELLER announced  that the only order of  business would be                                                               
a briefing  from the  Department of  Law regarding  the Ketchikan                                                               
Gateway Borough Lawsuit.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
8:07:23 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REBECCA  HATTON,  Assistant  Attorney General,  Labor  and  State                                                               
Affairs  Section,  Department  of   Law,  advised  the  Ketchikan                                                               
Gateway  Borough  filed  suit  against the  State  of  Alaska  in                                                               
January 2014,  regarding the  Required Local  Contribution (RLC),                                                               
which is  an element  of Alaska's  public school  funding formula                                                               
under  the Alaska  State  Constitution.   In  February and  March                                                               
2014,  both  parties  to  the case  asked  Superior  Court  Judge                                                               
William  Carey to  grant summary  judgment in  their favor.   She                                                               
explained  that summary  judgment is  granted when  there are  no                                                               
issues  of  material  fact  to  be resolved.    While  there  was                                                               
disagreement regarding the law, there  were no contested facts as                                                               
it was  purely a question  of law.   The lawsuit was  resolved in                                                               
January  2014  as Judge  Carey  ruled  on the  cross-motions  for                                                               
summary  judgment and  issued  final judgment  on  the matter  in                                                               
January 2015.   She stated  that Judge Carey's decision  found in                                                               
favor  of  the   Ketchikan  Gateway  Borough  as   to  one  their                                                               
constitutional claims,  and in favor  of the state as  to several                                                               
other  constitutional claims,  but ultimately  the effect  of the                                                               
claim  was to  hold  the RLC  in violation  of  the Alaska  State                                                               
Constitution.  She explained that  in January the state requested                                                               
Judge Carey to  stay his ruling as the state  had filed an appeal                                                               
with  the Alaska  Supreme Court.   In  late February  2015, Judge                                                               
Carey denied  the state's request for  a stay and when  the state                                                               
informed the Alaska Supreme Court  regarding that development and                                                               
requested  the Alaska  Supreme Court  stay  Judge Carey's  ruling                                                               
until the court  had an opportunity to hear and  decide the case,                                                               
the Alaska Supreme Court granted that motion [March] 11, 2015.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
8:10:49 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HATTON  continued  and  began   to  describe  described  the                                                               
constitutional claims  within the lawsuit.   Again, she remarked,                                                               
the challenge  was to  the RLC  which requires  municipalities to                                                               
contribute toward the  operation of its local  school district at                                                               
the equivalent of  a 2.65 mill rate  and statewide municipalities                                                               
pay on average  approximately 16 percent of the  basic need costs                                                               
of  education in  their local  school districts.   She  explained                                                               
that in  FY2014 the Ketchikan  Gateway Borough's RLC  payment was                                                               
approximately  $4.2 million,  out  of a  total  $22.5 million  in                                                               
basic need for Ketchikan.   The lawsuit claimed that the required                                                               
contribution violated  three separate  constitutional provisions:                                                               
Article XI,  Section 7 the  dedicated funds  prohibition; Article                                                               
IX,  Section  13  the  appropriation  clause;  and,  Article  II,                                                               
Section 15  the governor's veto  clause.  She quoted  Article XI,                                                               
Section 7, as follows:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     The proceeds of  any state tax or license  shall not be                                                                    
     dedicated to  any special  purpose, except  as provided                                                                    
     in section 15  of this article or when  required by the                                                                    
     federal government  for state participation  in federal                                                                    
     programs.  This   provision  shall  not   prohibit  the                                                                    
     continuance  of  any  dedication for  special  purposes                                                                    
     existing upon the date of  ratification of this section                                                                    
     by the people of Alaska.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
8:12:37 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HATTON continued  that the  purpose  underlying the  state's                                                               
funds prohibition  was to  prevent ear  marking as  the intention                                                               
was to  prevent a situation  where a new  tax is created  and the                                                               
proceeds  of that  tax is  dedicated  or promised  to a  specific                                                               
purpose or outcome.  She conveyed  that the intent of the framers                                                               
was to  maximize the legislature's  ability to spend  money where                                                               
in its estimation it  was needed at any given point  in time.  In                                                               
order   to  determine   whether  or   not  the   dedicated  funds                                                               
prohibition has  been violated  the Alaska  court use  a two-part                                                               
test:   whether the funds  at issue are  the proceeds of  a state                                                               
tax or license; and, whether there  was a dedication to a special                                                               
purpose.  She related that the  state made many arguments on this                                                               
constitutional claim as the state's  position was that the RLC is                                                               
not a  specific tax and  is not state  revenue.  Judge  Carey did                                                               
not decide in  favor of this claim and held  the RLC does violate                                                               
the dedicated  funds prohibition.   The other  two constitutional                                                               
claims, she  said, the appropriations clause  and governor's veto                                                               
clause  are interrelated  as the  appropriations clause  concerns                                                               
the  legislature's authority  to  appropriate  funds whereas  the                                                               
governor's veto  clause has to  do with the  governor's authority                                                               
to  either strike  or  reduce line  items  from an  appropriation                                                               
bill.  Again, she explained,  the state's claim, also relevant to                                                               
the dedicated funds issue that the  RLC is not state revenue, the                                                               
state believed was fatal to  the other two constitutional claims.                                                               
The state  argued that the  legislative authority  to appropriate                                                               
funds is  limited to funds  that come within the  state treasury,                                                               
and   that  the   governor's  authority   to  strike   or  reduce                                                               
appropriations  is  limited  to  appropriations  that  have  been                                                               
authorized by the legislature.   She pointed out that the state's                                                               
briefing argued  that the RLC,  which is collected  by, deposited                                                               
by, and appropriated by the  borough's treasury as opposed to the                                                               
state,  therefore,  the  required  local  contributions  did  not                                                               
violate   either   the  governor's   line   item   veto  or   the                                                               
appropriations  clause.   As  to these  two  points, Judge  Carey                                                               
sided  with  the  state dismissing  both  of  the  constitutional                                                               
claims.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
8:15:13 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. HATTON  continued that the  Ketchikan Gateway Borough  made a                                                               
claim  in  assumpsit,  which  is  a common  law  action  for  the                                                               
recovery of damages with the  intentionality to basically correct                                                               
situations   where   a   party  has   been   unjustly   enriched.                                                               
Essentially, she  remarked, Ketchikan Gateway Borough  was asking                                                               
for  a refund.    She stated  that prior  to  the litigation  and                                                               
during  the  pendency of  the  litigation  the Ketchikan  Gateway                                                               
Borough made  its RLC in FY13  and FY14, but did  so with letters                                                               
advising they were doing so but  under protest and would like its                                                               
money back  should their  claim be granted.   Judge  Carey denied                                                               
this  claim  and  said  that  the state  had  not  been  unjustly                                                               
enriched largely because the RLC  never becomes state revenue and                                                               
never comes within  the power of the state  treasury.  Basically,                                                               
she  advised,  Judge  Carey's  order   found  that  the  RLC  was                                                               
unconstitutional  as violating  the dedicated  funds prohibition,                                                               
and not in violation of  either the appropriation's clause or the                                                               
governor's veto  clause and finally, Ketchikan  Gateway Borough's                                                               
request for  repayment of prior  RLC payments  was denied.   As a                                                               
result of  the stay  issued by  the Supreme  Court, the  state at                                                               
this  point can  continue to  enforce the  public school  funding                                                               
formula as it was written in  statute.  She thanked the committee                                                               
for  their  time  as  it  is important  for  the  legislature  to                                                               
understand  the issues  raised.   She related  that the  state is                                                               
very  confident  in  its  legal arguments  but  it  is  certainly                                                               
possible the  Alaska Supreme  Court could  come to  Judge Carey's                                                               
conclusion and were  that situation to come to pass,  it would be                                                               
an issue  requiring considerable  attention from  the legislature                                                               
in the future.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
8:17:36 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON  pointed  out  that the  January  11  date                                                               
should have been March 11.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. HATTON agreed.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
8:17:52 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KELLER  asked for information, at  a later date, as  to the                                                               
real impact to the general fund should the state lose the issue.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
8:18:22 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  questioned that if the  judge decided that                                                               
it  was  a tax,  and  it  was  dedicated  to a  special  purpose,                                                               
therefore, it  didn't violate the  appropriations or  veto clause                                                               
He asked  whether the state is  arguing it wasn't a  tax required                                                               
by the state, or it wasn't a state tax.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. HATTON  responded that  essentially the  state argued  it was                                                               
dispositive, that the  money didn't come within the  power of the                                                               
state treasury.   Although, Judge  Carey thought  differently and                                                               
through  the  distinction  he  drew  was  able  to  come  to  his                                                               
conclusions.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:19:24 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KATE  VOGEL,  Assistant   Attorney  General,  Appellate  Section,                                                               
Department  of Law,  added that  Judge Carey's  decision did  not                                                               
find  it to  be significant  that  the money  was locally  raised                                                               
money  and  locally   allocated.    She  explained   that  was  a                                                               
distinction the state drew and  anticipates will continue to draw                                                               
on appeal from  previous dedicated funds cases.   Judge Carey did                                                               
not  agree  and  distinguished  between the  application  of  the                                                               
dedicated   funds  clause   and  not   the  application   of  the                                                               
appropriation or the governor's veto clause.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:20:33 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KITO referred to the  decision by Judge Carey that                                                               
appears to identify the tax or  a license can be local, and asked                                                               
whether  there  is  a  requirement that  the  funding  the  local                                                               
government's pay come  from a tax or license.   Theoretically, he                                                               
questioned, whether  there could  be a  municipality that  has an                                                               
endowment and uses those earnings  to pay this local contribution                                                               
and  it  wouldn't  be  a  tax   on  the  citizens  of  the  local                                                               
government.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:21:19 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  VOGEL answered  yes, the  state  made that  argument as  the                                                               
statute gives  an amount that the  RLC is and states  that amount                                                               
as being the equivalent of a  mill rate.  Nothing in the statutes                                                               
dictate  how a  local community  should raise  that money  and it                                                               
doesn't  have to  be a  tax.   Judge  Carey did  not accept  that                                                               
argument but  it was  certainly a part  of the  state's position,                                                               
she maintained.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KITO commented  that with regard to  the impact to                                                               
the  general fund  and opined  the amount  of local  contribution                                                               
currently  is approximately  $220  million  which represents  the                                                               
total amount all municipalities contribute to education.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
8:22:43 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS surmised that  if the Supreme Court                                                               
granted a stay presumably it will take up the case and rule.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HATTON agreed,  and advised  that both  sides have  launched                                                               
appeals and  in fact has  a scheduling conference  this afternoon                                                               
to determine due  dates with the Supreme Court.   She expects the                                                               
Supreme Court,  based on  the short order  it issued  in granting                                                               
the stay, intends to deal with the case in an expedited fashion.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KREISS-TOMKINS  asked  her   opinion  as  to  the                                                               
timeline for the Supreme Court.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. HATTON  replied that  she would not  speculate and  will keep                                                               
the  committee apprised,  but  the Supreme  Court  is within  its                                                               
authority to take any length of time it deems sufficient.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:24:14 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KELLER questioned  that should  the  Supreme Court  agree,                                                               
will  the local  school district  be short  that money.   Or,  is                                                               
there a clear implication that it goes back to the general fund.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HATTON  responded  that  she will  not  speculate  what  the                                                               
Supreme  Court  might  rule,  but   would  draw  the  committee's                                                               
attention  to  the  fact  that  although  the  Ketchikan  Gateway                                                               
Borough did  not clearly  challenge the  RLC under  the education                                                               
clause, they  did include  arguments that  the state  had somehow                                                               
abdicated  its responsibility  to  fully fund  education.   Judge                                                               
Carey clearly decided that the  state does not have an obligation                                                               
to fully fund education, she explained.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KELLER asked her comments  as to the implications regarding                                                               
impact aid.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HATTON offered  that  is an  area of  concern  as Alaska  is                                                               
deemed  to have  an  equalized funding  formula  for purposes  of                                                               
federal impact aid.   As such, she put forward,  it is allowed to                                                               
take into account  90 percent of the impact aid  payments made to                                                               
districts,  which  amounts  to an  approximate  offset  of  state                                                               
education funding of $69-70 million  annually.  She said it would                                                               
be speculation to  say if any revised formula would  be passed by                                                               
the legislature in the future, as  it is an open question whether                                                               
or not it  would be considered equalized by  the Federal Division                                                               
of Impact Aid.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KELLER pointed out that  those questions highlight what the                                                               
legislature is up against.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:26:32 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KITO asked whether a  decision in this case impact                                                               
other   payments   the   legislature   might   require   from   a                                                               
municipality,  such as  a first  contribution  or a  match for  a                                                               
capital project.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.  VOGEL answered  yes,  a dedicated  funds  decision from  the                                                               
Supreme  Court  in this  arena,  particularly  if it  adopted  an                                                               
analysis similar  to that of  Superior Court, could  have further                                                               
reaching implications for other  matching grant programs or other                                                               
times when  the state mandates a  local entity put in  some money                                                               
in exchange  for access to  state funds.   That is  something the                                                               
state would argue would be an  extension of the way the dedicated                                                               
funds clause has  been interpreted in the past.   She opined that                                                               
how much of  an impact the decision has would  depend on what the                                                               
Supreme Court  decides and  words its  decision.   Certainly, she                                                               
pointed  out,  the  dedicated  fund  provision  has  implications                                                               
beyond the education  arena so the state's position  has been one                                                               
of trying  to highlight to the  court all of the  implications of                                                               
ruling that this is a dedicated fund.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
8:28:26 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON  questioned   whether  the  discussion  is                                                               
regarding  the  70/30 reimbursement  rate  for  debt incurred  be                                                               
implicated in this.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HATTON  responded  that  it  was an  area  of  concern,  not                                                               
specifically  70/30  grants,  but  other  joint  municipal  state                                                               
participation  type programs  currently  in statute  which was  a                                                               
significant  part of  the state's  argument in  the lower  court.                                                               
She said that  it was an area  of concern for the  state and that                                                               
that sort of  joint participation program could  be endangered by                                                               
an  expansive interpretation  of  the  dedicated funds  provision                                                               
encompassing the RLC,  and it remains to be seen  how the Supreme                                                               
Court will decide or word a ruling.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON inquired whether  the PERS participation is                                                               
one of the issues the state is arguing would be an expansion.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. HATTON replied that it  was not a particular area highlighted                                                               
in  the state's  briefing  to  the lower  court,  and  as to  the                                                               
briefing to the Supreme Court they "haven't done it yet."                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:45:10 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ORTIZ  requested a summary  of the three  parts of                                                               
the  constitution that  the Ketchikan  Gateway Borough  based its                                                               
lawsuit upon and how they relate to the case.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. HATTON responded that the  first constitutional claim was the                                                               
dedicated funds  provision and constraint against  ear marking of                                                               
identifying a particular source of  income to the state and tying                                                               
it to  a particular outgoing  source or project.   Its connection                                                               
to this case  was that the Ketchikan Gateway  Borough argued that                                                               
the   reprisal  for   contribution  violates   that  constitution                                                               
provision.   The  appropriations clause  and the  governor's veto                                                               
power  had  to  do  with the  legislature's  ability  to  approve                                                               
appropriations, and the  governor's ability to use  his line item                                                               
veto power.   She  explained that  the Ketchikan  Gateway Borough                                                               
contends this was a dedicated  fund thereby implicating the other                                                               
two clauses  because if the  conclusion was  that it was  a state                                                               
tax, the fact  that the money moved  directly from municipalities                                                               
to  local  school district.    She  remarked that  the  Ketchikan                                                               
Gateway Borough's argument  was that it somehow  violated both of                                                               
those  constitutional provisions  by unconstitutionally  skirting                                                               
the respective power of the legislature and governor.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ORTIZ surmised  that  Judge  Carey ruled  against                                                               
Ketchikan Gateway Borough on those last two point.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. HATTAN answered correct.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:32:03 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  referred to  the appeal and  asked whether                                                               
all three issues  are being appealed or just  the dedicated funds                                                               
portion.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. HATTON responded that it  is everything.  Initially the state                                                               
appealed  the  point on  which  they  lost, the  dedicated  funds                                                               
prohibition  and then  Ketchikan  Gateway Borough  cross-appealed                                                               
the  other two  constitutional claims  as well  as its  assumpsit                                                               
claim.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
8:32:41 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND  asked whether the state  considered what                                                               
other  states do  in terms  of education  funding.   For example,                                                               
Alaska's school  districts are dependent school  district as they                                                               
rely upon  local governments  and the  state to  provide funding.                                                               
She  pointed  out  that  many   states  have  independent  school                                                               
districts  that  require  a  local   tax  contribution  from  its                                                               
citizens and go  to the citizens for its tax  portion and capitol                                                               
funds.   She opined that she  can see this turning  Alaska into a                                                               
different sort of  structure in terms of how  its school district                                                               
function.  In the event the  state loses, she offered, and school                                                               
districts have to  find another source of revenue,  it could turn                                                               
them  into independent  school districts  looking to  their local                                                               
governments for taxes directly and going to the local ballot.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KELLER said he would like  to know whether that was part of                                                               
the court's consideration.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:34:43 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. HATTAN  advised that the  state's focus was quite  limited in                                                               
the sense  that its goal  was defending the legality  of Alaska's                                                               
system as it currently exists.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
The legislature  has, within the  confines of what  the education                                                               
clause  requires,  essentially  plenary   power  to  decide  what                                                               
education is  going to  look like  in the State  of Alaska.   She                                                               
explained that the  Department of Law considered  it task because                                                               
there were  and continue  to be good  legal defenses  of Alaska's                                                               
current system.   Their  goal was to  legally defend  the current                                                               
system which  puts the legislature  in a better position  to come                                                               
at this issue  from a policy perspective and decide  what is best                                                               
for the state.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
8:35:37 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. VOGEL  added that  one other consideration  on that  issue is                                                               
before   statehood  school   districts  had   independent  taxing                                                               
authority  and  they  initially  paid  for  their  schooling  and                                                               
requested  refunds   from  the   territory,  but   currently  the                                                               
constitution  does not  give school  districts taxing  authority.                                                               
She said the state and  municipalities have taxing authority, for                                                               
example, the school  districts in unorganized Alaska  do not have                                                               
taxing  authority.   In  terms of  how it  works  now, the  tools                                                               
Alaska has  at its  disposal for funding  schools is  state aide,                                                               
aide raised from  municipalities through RLC and how  it chose to                                                               
access that  money, and federal  aid are  the main sources.   She                                                               
offered that  the Department of  Law is  aware of how  much state                                                               
aid Alaska schools  receives and presented evidence  to the court                                                               
regarding how Alaska  follows with respect to other  states.  She                                                               
agrees with  Ms. Hatton that the  focus in the litigation  is the                                                               
legality of the RLC in light of the dedicated funds provision.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
8:37:22 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DRUMMOND surmised  that  "let's  figure this  out                                                               
first before  we worry  about what  is going  on down  the road."                                                               
She  noted  it  sounds  like   it  would  take  a  constitutional                                                               
amendment to change the funding source for schools.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. VOGEL responded  that it is not  specifically being litigated                                                               
yet so  no need to  go there, and did  not want to  speculate for                                                               
need for a  constitutional amendment to change things  one way or                                                               
another.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
8:38:06 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   SEATON  said   that  the   state  requires   all                                                               
municipality  boroughs to  use 100  percent fair  market assessed                                                               
valuations.   In  the event  there is  a dedicated  funds problem                                                               
couldn't  the  state impose  a  3.65  mill  tax on  all  assessed                                                               
valuations in the  state and give it to the  general fund.  Then,                                                               
he remarked,  as the legislature  appropriates money it  can fund                                                               
education  as  it  sees  fit,  and oil  and  gas  properties  are                                                               
separately  assessed  so it  is  in  a  different category.    He                                                               
questioned  whether that  is  the  logical response  if  it is  a                                                               
dedicated funds problem.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HATTAN  answered  that  it would  certainly  be  a  solution                                                               
available to the  legislature, but she wouldn't  speculate on the                                                               
parameters of  what the Supreme  Court might rule in  the future.                                                               
In  the  state's  briefing  to the  lower  court  emphasized  the                                                               
benefit to  local school  districts in the  sense that  the money                                                               
isn't deposited into  the general fund and  is allocated directly                                                               
from municipalities to its local  school districts and all of the                                                               
money goes directly to that  purpose.  Therefore, they felt there                                                               
was significant  benefits to individual  school district  to have                                                               
the RLC implemented the way it is written now, she stated.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  clarified he  was asking whether  there is                                                               
anything  prohibiting the  state from  having a  property tax  at                                                               
whatever  millage rate  it decides  based upon  100 percent  fair                                                               
market valuation which is what is required of all assessments.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. HATTON replied  that nothing she is aware of  and deferred to                                                               
Ms. Vogel.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:40:11 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. VOGEL agreed that it would  be a possible solution and she is                                                               
not  aware  of  any  constitutional  problems.    Certainly,  she                                                               
pointed out,  the manner  it was  described the  idea of  a state                                                               
imposed tax being  deposited in the general fund  and not pledged                                                               
to  schools would  seem  to be  permissible  under the  dedicated                                                               
funds clause  no matter what  the court decides about  the status                                                               
quo and the current way the state does it.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KELLER  said it is  a discussion  the committee may  or may                                                               
not get into in the future.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:41:01 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ORTIZ inquired  as to  whether Ketchikan  Gateway                                                               
Borough argued  it was unequitable  treatment and  integrate that                                                               
into different Articles in the  Alaska State Constitution between                                                               
how  students in  borough areas  are funded  by the  state versus                                                               
students in non-borough areas.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. HATTAN answered it did not.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:42:25 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON  commented  that  the  current  system  is                                                               
better as the prior system  caused a problem between equities and                                                               
different parts of  the state.  He opined Alaska  does not have a                                                               
problem  other  than  the  will  to determine  there  will  be  a                                                               
property tax  at whatever mill  rate across  the state.   He said                                                               
that it  is basically what  the state  does by requiring  a local                                                               
contribution  at the  3.65  level,  and it  does  not appear  the                                                               
legislature is in a box.  He  explained it would mean a change in                                                               
the  system  as  it  would  go   to  the  general  fund  and  the                                                               
appropriation and veto clauses would  be available.  Although, he                                                               
remarked,  he  is  worried  about the  lawsuit  and  redoing  the                                                               
system, it  appears there are mechanisms  without totally turning                                                               
over the  way in  which districts  are organized  and taxed.   He                                                               
pointed  out that  a fairly  simple  solution is  that the  state                                                               
could either  keep it the same  level or go back  to the previous                                                               
formula  if   there  are  funding   problems  for   local  school                                                               
districts.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KELLER  pointed   out  that  it  may   be  an  anticipated                                                               
discussion in the future.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:45:03 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Education Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 8:45 a.m.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                

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